{"id":95956,"date":"2023-10-03T12:00:00","date_gmt":"2023-10-03T11:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/routenote.com\/blog\/?p=95956"},"modified":"2023-10-03T14:30:42","modified_gmt":"2023-10-03T13:30:42","slug":"elevate-interviews-samantha-parsley","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/routenote.com\/blog\/elevate-interviews-samantha-parsley\/","title":{"rendered":"Elevate Interviews | Samantha Parsley"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

If you were assembling an elite squad to fight for gender equality in music, you\u2019d want Samantha Parsley heading up your research room.<\/span><\/h2>\n\n\n\n

Professor Samantha Parsley<\/a> is a learned and passionate leader in gender in music research as well as an electronic music producer and DJ. A research academic, she is also the founder of In The Key, a research project focused on gathering much-needed data to investigate gender imbalances in the world of electronic music production, a space that has always been male-dominated. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The fantastic podcast series<\/a> that accompanies In The Key is a must-listen, featuring fascinating interviews with female-identifying and gender-expansive producers on their careers and the challenges and successes that have accompanied their journeys.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In speaking to Samantha about gender in music we wanted to present data-based evidence, hard facts that can\u2019t be argued away. Whilst her research is focused on electronic music<\/a>, Samantha has knowledge of wide-ranging facts and statistics as well as anecdotal evidence that lays bare the uphill battle to success faced by female-identifying and gender-expansive people in all areas of the music industry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Amongst her responses, she offered clear-eyed advice to organisations seeking to be more inclusive, along with fierce opposition to those who oppose change. If anyone doubts that music has a gender problem, show them this interview.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n

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First of all, please introduce yourself!<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

My name is Samantha Parsley (she\/her) and I\u2019m a Professor in Organization Studies at the University of Portsmouth, UK. I\u2019ve been researching electronic music production and gender for a few years now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m also a DJ and producer myself under the name of Dovetail and I\u2019ve been a long-time raver since the year 2000.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Can you summarise the In The Key<\/em> project, and explain why research and data is important in understanding the problems faced by non-male music industry workers?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Back in 2018 I set out to build a robust qualitative-evidence base of the career experiences of women self-producers of electronic music, focusing on their success strategies as much as the challenges they face.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We live in a world where data is central to driving change. I\u2019d begun researching DJing in general a couple of years earlier, and learned that producing music, as well as playing other people\u2019s, is increasingly key to success in electronic genres.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The thing I found intriguing was that the numbers of women DJs who produced their own tunes seemed to be very small. As festivals and promoters prefer to book producers and artists, rather than DJs, this seemed to be a key obstacle in achieving gender balanced line-ups.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, I set about finding out why and how we could address gender imbalance in production.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Name some barriers unique to women & non-binary people in the music industry.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Feeling, and being, excluded. On the flipside, being accused of tokenism.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Having your skills and competence doubted, purely based on your identity. Non-male producers are assumed to have someone who engineers for them, and when working with men its assumed that the man did the production. Electronic music production is a very technical thing, and technology affirms a male identity and defies traditional social ideas about femininity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Worrying that someone you\u2019re collaborating with is either going to hit on you, or wants to harm you in some way. The women in my study spoke of the self-doubt that engenders, and also how they simply didn\u2019t take men up on an offer of collaboration because they\u2019d had bad experiences or knew people who did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Being sexualised and having hyper-attention on your appearance above your musical talent or technical skill. If you do dare to dress in a \u201csuggestive\u201d way, or are particularly attractive, those first two problems I identified are magnified.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Experiencing greater push-back from labels, promoters, talent bookers and so on, when it comes to contracting for publishing and appearances. These stakeholders question way more clauses and arrangements for non-male artists than they do for men.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Online misogyny! Anecdotally, I\u2019ve noticed women and gender-expansive producers get way more nasty trolling comments on their content on socials than men do. Someone needs to do a study of this. Trolls on men\u2019s posts tend to focus on perceived lack of skill. Women are subject to abuse on their appearance, dress, sexual habits \u2013 you name it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s heart-breaking to see. It actively stops these talented people posting content. And without content by women, trans and non-binary producers, we don\u2019t have adequate representation to inspire new generations of artists.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I could go on, but those are the main barriers!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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When working together female-identifying artists say they feel more in control, not intimidated, in a non-judgemental space. Do you ever find working or communicating with other women feels different?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

100% yes. In the same way that guys feel like they can be \u201cbros together,\u201d so it is with women. We love getting together for a good old chat!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There\u2019s generally just a sense of togetherness, inclusion, equality, and so on in an all-female or gender minority space. You don\u2019t feel daft asking questions, you don\u2019t have to worry about looking stupid in front of guys who are either super confident or patronising.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It\u2019s much easier to be confident when you are among like-minded and welcoming others! You aren\u2019t going to enjoy the networking process that is so important to career success, and often come across as lacking in confidence. It\u2019s very hard to be \u201cthe only one in the room\u201d and feel you belong.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There seems to be a posturing and quite aggressive tone to the male-dominated forums and groups online that I belong to for example. When someone asks for help, there are always other guys ready to put them down or be negative, whereas that is entirely absent from the women\u2019s groups. It\u2019s also more inclusive, and mindful of pronouns, too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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It\u2019s natural to feel inspired when you see people in positions of power that you can identify with, from crediting songwriters properly up to CEOs. How can we shift the narrative to women being seen as leaders in the music industry?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Great question. I think you answered it yourself there, when you suggest crediting people properly. That\u2019s certainly one way \u2013 making women and gender-expansive creators visible and recognised for their work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We also need to involve senior women in positions of expertise, such as on conference panels and judging panels, as teachers in music production schools. We need to de-gender the curriculum. By that I mean use materials written by women, and content produced by women, when we are teaching the craft of production.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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I\u2019m interested to hear your opinion on removing gender from awards show categories, for example making the Brit Award for Best Artist gender-neutral. In a similar vein, do you think it\u2019s helpful for non-male producers and artists to be introduced as a \u201cfemale producer,\u201d for example, as opposed to simply a producer? Does it result in non-male music roles being treated as a novelty?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

What you\u2019re talking about is the salience of gender here. So yes, on both counts, remove the label \u201cfemale\u201d \u2013 there is no need to qualify the \u201cbest artist\u201d by gender, or the \u201cbest single\u201d or the \u201cbest anything\u201d in the same way there is no need to call a producer a \u201cfemale producer.\u201d Although I do this a lot, because I am specifically talking about women in my work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That said, just because gendered categories are removed from awards doesn\u2019t mean that positive action shouldn\u2019t be carried out in terms of the nominations<\/em>. The pool of talent from which the award is drawn needs to be diverse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And before anyone whines \u201cBut that\u2019s not fair!\u201d let me remind you of the barriers I outlined previously, that don\u2019t apply to men, do not hinder their ability to exercise their talent, and do not stop them from achieving. Not seeing these is a direct result of male privilege \u2013 assuming that the playing field is level and that everyone has the same chance of success, which is not the case.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, positive action is essential to level up the field, and reduce the effects of that privilege. Without that, \u201cgender neutral\u201d becomes \u201cgender blind,\u201d and male structural bias creeps in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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How do you feel about asking artists themselves to work towards equality, for example pledging not to sign up to events that have less than half non-male artists on a festival line up? Is it fair to put that on artists rather than organisers?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

This is a question of relative power, to be honest. It\u2019s hard to do if you\u2019re an emerging artist from a minority when you are faced with the very real possibility of being cancelled for having an inclusion rider.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So, we need established artists to step up \u2013 Jaguar has an inclusion rider on her contract, for example. We need men to do this too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The really big names have so much power, and could make so much difference. They\u2019re afraid of backlash for going there when it comes to gender and race, and are also able to walk away from these issues because of their privilege.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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How do you think we can make spaces safer for non-male artists and producers?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Educate, call-out shitty behaviour, speak up, shame people who behave badly. Provide safe spaces for men who want to learn about this stuff without fear of looking ignorant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Often gender or queer minorities in dance music create their own amazing safe and brave spaces where they can support each other, party in safety and so on. But this also creates separation, division and enclaves that mean the mainstream stays the straight “male-stream”.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Let\u2019s talk about successes, too! Can you name some organisations or projects \u2013 aside from In The Key, of course \u2013 that are particularly good at lifting up women and gender-expansive people in the music industry?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Organisations such as Women in CTRL are actively championing women and gender-expansive people to apply for board positions of prominent music organizations for example. There are several excellent YouTube channels run by women such as LNA Does Audio Stuff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Here are just some! There are so<\/em> many more out there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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